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	<title>Comments on: How Free is Free Will?</title>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-20610</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dear Anne, 

Thanks so much for your kind words about me...You are much too kind! I appreciate your encouragement.  And I love that story about Whitefield and Wesley. Thanks for sharing! I&#039;ve never heard it before, though I&#039;ve heard Whitefield&#039;s quote that &quot;An Arminian on his knees prays like a Calvinist.&quot;  Indeed, the wonder is not in the fact that wretched sinners go to hell, but rather in the fact that &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; sinner even gets to heaven at all!  Praise be to God for His undeserved mercy and saving grace!

It was encouraging to hear from you.  Thanks again for commenting, Anne.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Anne, </p>
<p>Thanks so much for your kind words about me&#8230;You are much too kind! I appreciate your encouragement.  And I love that story about Whitefield and Wesley. Thanks for sharing! I&#8217;ve never heard it before, though I&#8217;ve heard Whitefield&#8217;s quote that &#8220;An Arminian on his knees prays like a Calvinist.&#8221;  Indeed, the wonder is not in the fact that wretched sinners go to hell, but rather in the fact that <i>any</i> sinner even gets to heaven at all!  Praise be to God for His undeserved mercy and saving grace!</p>
<p>It was encouraging to hear from you.  Thanks again for commenting, Anne.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-20605</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-20605</guid>
		<description>What a wonderful way you have of putting your points across, Jessica. I would love to have been blessed with such a gracious manner. 
As for your original post, all I can say is Amen and Amen. Where would any of us be without God&#039;s sovereign and electing love? We would be lost. We would never have had any desire for Christ.
&#039;How can these bones live?&#039; Not of themselves, certainly.
I once read that George Whitefield and John Wesley were together having worship in a home. John Wesley prayed, and when they got up off their knees, Mr Whitefield said to him, &#039;Well, Mr Wesley, I am glad to hear that although you&#039;re an Arminian in the pulpit, you are a Calvinist on your knees&#039;! How can any true believer be otherwise? I can&#039;t understand that. How can any believer who knows his own heart really believe there is any good thing there except what the Holy Spirit has implanted. 
The wonder of the Gospel is that God ever turned His mind to save any. He would be just in the damnation of all. What unspeakable love to have elected from all eternity those who would be saved.
Amazing Grace indeed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a wonderful way you have of putting your points across, Jessica. I would love to have been blessed with such a gracious manner.<br />
As for your original post, all I can say is Amen and Amen. Where would any of us be without God&#8217;s sovereign and electing love? We would be lost. We would never have had any desire for Christ.<br />
&#8216;How can these bones live?&#8217; Not of themselves, certainly.<br />
I once read that George Whitefield and John Wesley were together having worship in a home. John Wesley prayed, and when they got up off their knees, Mr Whitefield said to him, &#8216;Well, Mr Wesley, I am glad to hear that although you&#8217;re an Arminian in the pulpit, you are a Calvinist on your knees&#8217;! How can any true believer be otherwise? I can&#8217;t understand that. How can any believer who knows his own heart really believe there is any good thing there except what the Holy Spirit has implanted.<br />
The wonder of the Gospel is that God ever turned His mind to save any. He would be just in the damnation of all. What unspeakable love to have elected from all eternity those who would be saved.<br />
Amazing Grace indeed</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2183</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeff, thanks so much for your kind compliment on my humble abode on the net! :) It&#039;s encouraging to hear that.

I hope that you have a blessed Friday.  And oh, have fun reading those books on your list! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff, thanks so much for your kind compliment on my humble abode on the net! <img src='http://pilgrimsprogress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  It&#8217;s encouraging to hear that.</p>
<p>I hope that you have a blessed Friday.  And oh, have fun reading those books on your list! <img src='http://pilgrimsprogress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jeff M.</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2169</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2169</guid>
		<description>Jessica, it&#039;s my pleasure.  And my compliments to you for your wonderful blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessica, it&#8217;s my pleasure.  And my compliments to you for your wonderful blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2163</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2163</guid>
		<description>Hi there, Jeff! :)

&lt;blockquote&gt;Is it fair? We should tremble at the idea of God being fair!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Indeed!  That&#039;s a great point.  I&#039;m grateful God spares us from what we deserve and, in His mercy, grants us what we actually do &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; deserve.  Thanks so much for leaving a comment! :D Nice to know you stopped by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there, Jeff! <img src='http://pilgrimsprogress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<blockquote><p>Is it fair? We should tremble at the idea of God being fair!</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed!  That&#8217;s a great point.  I&#8217;m grateful God spares us from what we deserve and, in His mercy, grants us what we actually do <em>not</em> deserve.  Thanks so much for leaving a comment! <img src='http://pilgrimsprogress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  Nice to know you stopped by.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff M.</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2161</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2161</guid>
		<description>Pastor Samson, that is a helpful example.  The only thing that I would add is to factor in Sin.  It&#039;s not as though God saves or passes by worthy recipients of his mercy.  He does so to flagrant and habitual violators of his Law.  We deserve judgment, and not only that, our consciences testify against us (Romans 1, 2:15).

Is it fair? We should tremble at the idea of God being fair!

I&#039;m sure this was covered adequately above but I just wanted to add that to your analogy.  Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pastor Samson, that is a helpful example.  The only thing that I would add is to factor in Sin.  It&#8217;s not as though God saves or passes by worthy recipients of his mercy.  He does so to flagrant and habitual violators of his Law.  We deserve judgment, and not only that, our consciences testify against us (Romans 1, 2:15).</p>
<p>Is it fair? We should tremble at the idea of God being fair!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure this was covered adequately above but I just wanted to add that to your analogy.  Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: yanadi</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2159</link>
		<dc:creator>yanadi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2159</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Even if they desire to be saved they cannot be saved since their purpose in being born is to die and burn in Hell. Who could believe such nonsense?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;Is Divine Election Fair?&lt;/strong&gt;

Perhaps the biggest hurdle people stumble over concerning the Biblical doctrine of Divine Election, is the idea that it just doesn&#039;t seem fair. It is the issue I struggled with for many years, as like many others, I had the idea that in order for God to be fair, He has to treat all people equally.

Lets consider this fact though: When a person gives that which he has no obligation to give, he is considered gracious in giving to other people; but he is certainly not considered unjust because he doesn&#039;t give to an additional party.

Dr. Michael Horton gives an illustration which makes the issue very clear. He tells of a man who has a million dollars that he wants to give away and he decides to give $100,000 to ten different organizations. An eleventh organization hearing about this act of charity would not have a just case against the man if they were to make the claim that he hasn&#039;t been fair.

That&#039;s obvious isn&#039;t it? The man owes nothing to this 11th organization, just as he didn&#039;t owe anything to the ten others he gave to. This 11th organization doesn&#039;t have a just claim to that money. The man has every right to do what he wants with his own money and he can give it to whomever he will. That is exactly what takes place in Divine Election.
- Pastor John Samson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Even if they desire to be saved they cannot be saved since their purpose in being born is to die and burn in Hell. Who could believe such nonsense?</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Is Divine Election Fair?</strong></p>
<p>Perhaps the biggest hurdle people stumble over concerning the Biblical doctrine of Divine Election, is the idea that it just doesn&#8217;t seem fair. It is the issue I struggled with for many years, as like many others, I had the idea that in order for God to be fair, He has to treat all people equally.</p>
<p>Lets consider this fact though: When a person gives that which he has no obligation to give, he is considered gracious in giving to other people; but he is certainly not considered unjust because he doesn&#8217;t give to an additional party.</p>
<p>Dr. Michael Horton gives an illustration which makes the issue very clear. He tells of a man who has a million dollars that he wants to give away and he decides to give $100,000 to ten different organizations. An eleventh organization hearing about this act of charity would not have a just case against the man if they were to make the claim that he hasn&#8217;t been fair.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s obvious isn&#8217;t it? The man owes nothing to this 11th organization, just as he didn&#8217;t owe anything to the ten others he gave to. This 11th organization doesn&#8217;t have a just claim to that money. The man has every right to do what he wants with his own money and he can give it to whomever he will. That is exactly what takes place in Divine Election.<br />
- Pastor John Samson</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2144</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 03:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2144</guid>
		<description>Hello Pastor Lane,

Thanks so much for taking the time to visit.  It was very nice to read your comment.  Thanks so much for recommending Jerome Zanchius’s &lt;i&gt;Absolute Predestination&lt;/i&gt;.  That&#039;s so interesting to hear the story about Augustus Toplady&#039;s challenge to John Wesley to read this book!

I&#039;m also honored that you linked to my blog from yours.  Thank you!  I learn a lot from your blog and have added it in my blogroll.  Will visit it back again.

Have a wonderful day of worship on the Lord&#039;s Day tomorrow! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Pastor Lane,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for taking the time to visit.  It was very nice to read your comment.  Thanks so much for recommending Jerome Zanchius’s <i>Absolute Predestination</i>.  That&#8217;s so interesting to hear the story about Augustus Toplady&#8217;s challenge to John Wesley to read this book!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also honored that you linked to my blog from yours.  Thank you!  I learn a lot from your blog and have added it in my blogroll.  Will visit it back again.</p>
<p>Have a wonderful day of worship on the Lord&#8217;s Day tomorrow! <img src='http://pilgrimsprogress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lane Keister</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2142</link>
		<dc:creator>Lane Keister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2142</guid>
		<description>Jessica, I commend you on your gracious, yet cogent defense of the doctrines of grace. Ran across your blog from the PB. Since I am always looking for more Reformed blogs to which I can link, I will certainly add yours. My blog has been on an anti-FV kick for some time, but there are other things there as well (including a complete series of sermons on Genesis).  

Hunt&#039;s book is not a reliable guide to understanding Calvinism. His scholarship is not merely sloppy, it is non-existent. He interacts with none of the great Calvin scholars (such as Parker, Muller, or Warfield), and erects straw-men all over the place. The best book to understanding all of this is Jerome Zanchius&#039;s book _Absolute Predestination_. It is published in English by Maranatha Bible Society. It is said of this book that Augustus Toplady challenged John Wesley to read this book and refute it. Wesley promised that he would, and yet never did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessica, I commend you on your gracious, yet cogent defense of the doctrines of grace. Ran across your blog from the PB. Since I am always looking for more Reformed blogs to which I can link, I will certainly add yours. My blog has been on an anti-FV kick for some time, but there are other things there as well (including a complete series of sermons on Genesis).  </p>
<p>Hunt&#8217;s book is not a reliable guide to understanding Calvinism. His scholarship is not merely sloppy, it is non-existent. He interacts with none of the great Calvin scholars (such as Parker, Muller, or Warfield), and erects straw-men all over the place. The best book to understanding all of this is Jerome Zanchius&#8217;s book _Absolute Predestination_. It is published in English by Maranatha Bible Society. It is said of this book that Augustus Toplady challenged John Wesley to read this book and refute it. Wesley promised that he would, and yet never did.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2118</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pilgrimsprogress.net/2007/11/29/how-free-is-free-will/#comment-2118</guid>
		<description>If anyone else is interested in this subject, I want to encourage anyone to refer again to the Scripture.  I don&#039;t think blogs are the best place for long theological debates, so I&#039;m not a big fan of internet debates. :)  There&#039;s just too little space for a good thorough discussion on such a deep topic.  It also appears that such debates often generate more heat than light.

So with that, please allow me to leave just a few words from the pages of inspired Scripture where the apostle Paul addresses the subject of election (a topic which, &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; surprisingly, he also had to deal with back in his day):

&lt;blockquote&gt;Romans 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that &lt;b&gt;God’s&lt;/b&gt; purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As we see, the objections against the doctrine of God&#039;s election is not a novelty that only emerged in recent centuries.  The world always questions the unfathomable ways and wisdom of God, as they did in Paul&#039;s day.  We know this because Paul then answered their objections (the following quote is an immediate continuation of the above quoted Scripture):

&lt;blockquote&gt;14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God&#039;s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 &lt;b&gt;So then it depends not on human will or exertion&lt;/b&gt;, [2] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If God has chosen to elect &lt;em&gt;no&lt;/em&gt; one, He would still be a God of justice in doing so, since He has no obligation to save anyone.  But He, in His divine mercy and grace, has chosen to elect some -- wretched sinners such as ourselves who were not merely sick, but &lt;em&gt;dead&lt;/em&gt;, to sin.  This is why grace is so &lt;em&gt;amazing&lt;/em&gt;!  This is why we praise and sing &quot;Amazing grace.&quot;  To echo Michael Horton: Yes, let us put &lt;em&gt;amazing&lt;/em&gt; back into grace.  Thank you all for reading.  May our gracious, merciful God continue to bless you. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anyone else is interested in this subject, I want to encourage anyone to refer again to the Scripture.  I don&#8217;t think blogs are the best place for long theological debates, so I&#8217;m not a big fan of internet debates. <img src='http://pilgrimsprogress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   There&#8217;s just too little space for a good thorough discussion on such a deep topic.  It also appears that such debates often generate more heat than light.</p>
<p>So with that, please allow me to leave just a few words from the pages of inspired Scripture where the apostle Paul addresses the subject of election (a topic which, <em>not</em> surprisingly, he also had to deal with back in his day):</p>
<blockquote><p>Romans 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that <b>God’s</b> purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”</p></blockquote>
<p>As we see, the objections against the doctrine of God&#8217;s election is not a novelty that only emerged in recent centuries.  The world always questions the unfathomable ways and wisdom of God, as they did in Paul&#8217;s day.  We know this because Paul then answered their objections (the following quote is an immediate continuation of the above quoted Scripture):</p>
<blockquote><p>14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God&#8217;s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 <b>So then it depends not on human will or exertion</b>, [2] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.</p></blockquote>
<p>If God has chosen to elect <em>no</em> one, He would still be a God of justice in doing so, since He has no obligation to save anyone.  But He, in His divine mercy and grace, has chosen to elect some &#8212; wretched sinners such as ourselves who were not merely sick, but <em>dead</em>, to sin.  This is why grace is so <em>amazing</em>!  This is why we praise and sing &#8220;Amazing grace.&#8221;  To echo Michael Horton: Yes, let us put <em>amazing</em> back into grace.  Thank you all for reading.  May our gracious, merciful God continue to bless you. <img src='http://pilgrimsprogress.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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